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My Ebay was suspended - now Trying to decide if to sue/find lawyer
So I/my company are new to the site so Hi All!
Now, I am dealing with one of the most ridicules suspensions from eBay (although it seems to be very common that eBay bans people for no reason whatsoever) and am wondering what to do about it. Below is a really long post so sorry about the word wall! There is a cliffnotes at the bottom but it really doesn't do justice to the situation.
Who I am/my company-So, I am an Ivy student that is stuck paying $63,000 of tuition a year with zero financial aid. My only real source of income is owning my own computer company which has kept me out of any real debt as of yet but that may change very soon with eBay being run by people with the intelligence of toddlers. I started on eBay in 2008 and have since done aprox. $340,000 of business through it-$200,000 of that selling. I sell high-end made to order desktop computers. I have a website and have tried every auction site, but realistically eBay.com is the only viable place for me to do business (either directly or by referring customers to the site).
The History of the eBay account- In the entire history of my account, I only have a few negs or neuts, maybe 2 policy violations and within the last 12 months I have 100% positive feedback, 0 policy violations, and pretty good DSRs for everything but shipping time which is a 4.6. Before my current dilemma with eBay, I was doing the best I ever have-I did $70,000 of sales from May to August (all by myself no-less). My limits were 1600 items and 1.6 million dollars. I recently acquired a partner and refined a few supply chain difficulties so my expectations were to do $100,000 of business from September to Christmas. Boy, was I ever to be blindsided.
The situation leading up to ban-Before the ban, I had 3 low DSRs for shipping time from about 200 sales. Then, all in one month (as my volume increased in the summer), I got three negs which gave me all 1 star feedback between August 10 to 20. Come August 20th, my performance eval dropped me into Below Standard with 5-6 low DSRs for shipping. Between August 20th and the 25th, I had all three negs removed (two were scammers, one willingly changed by an upset customer). I then called customer support and the following chain of events occurred.
The Ban Step-by-Step-blue text is eBay rep speaking
August 20th-Poor eBay evaluation-~5 or 6 low DSRs for shipping time
August 20th-August 25th -3 low DSRs removed-now officially above standard in daily performance. Retrospectively, the account was never actually below standard (any feedback making it BS for a period was removed).
August ~27th- Phone call to eBay. Please review the 20th evaluation so that I can become above standard again ASAP-every day below standard is costing me money. Yes, we will do that in 3-5 business days. From looking at your account, it is highly likely it will be reset to above standard.
August 31st-Phone call to eBay. Never contacted about 20th evaluation review process-what happened? Yes, the review should have happened but has not. I will put in a note, you will be contacted very soon.
September 4-Phone call to eBay. Still not contacted, what in the world is going on? We are very sorry, no one has done it. Should be done so. Review of 20th evaluation NEVER happens.
September 11-(Email) You are banned because of low DSRs. Go away and never sell on eBay again please. It is learned much later that a representative took a look at the 20th evaluation and banned me for it. She should have looked at the fact that I was now above standard, that the feedbacks were removed, contacted me, and seen there was a review of the 20th evaluation ongoing. She did none of the above.
September 12-Why am I banned? The low DSRS were already removed? Sorry, it is indefinite-go away.
September 13-Supervisor-you had declining star ratings, were below standard in February so this is clearly a pattern for you. Ummm, I am looking at my Seller Dashboard and actually every one of my star ratings has improved in the last three months and no I have never been below standard before….I don’t care, go away. Puts on hold over one hour, I eventually hang up.
September 14-Call to John/regular rep. Sorry, yes you should not have been banned. I will submit an appeal of the ban for you. Expect a response within a week.
September 20-Ebay is switching which team handles the appeal, so wait some more please.
September 28th- Yep, they still working.
October 5th-Phone Call-I know people in the new department and will make sure you get a good review-wait some more.
October 14th- Yes, removed feedback would qualify for an unban. But, it looks like yours was removed improperly so we are going to deny the appeal. Ummm…no it wasn’t… Oh, it looks like the agents did not note the removals properly. Yes, they were all valid removals. I will re-appeal the ban.
October 16th- Yes, appeals agrees that all the feedback (the ONLY reason mentioned for the ban to this point) was removed properly. But, it looks like you may have feedback extorted one buyer so we are going to deny the appeal again. Ummm, I didn’t, a Seller Protection agent said I didn’t, and even if I did one single policy violation is not grounds for a ban. Well, we are worried about it being a pattern. Based on what other transactions? I don’t know. So…you don’t know what I am being banned for? We’ve made a strategic decision not to do business and you cannot possibly appeal this-the reasons don’t matter because we are god. And it doesn’t matter that this has never been introduced to me before? No. It doesn’t matter that I was banned for low DSRs and you agree that was incorrect? No. OK….sounds very fair indeed.
October 18th- Two reps tell me appeals are never granted-less than .5% of the time. eBay is forcing lots of sellers out and does not want them back. It doesn’t even allow them to qualify for an appeal in 98% of cases. So, a rep could make a mistake, another rep acknowledge they made a mistake, and it is not a problem-you are still banned. Representative reads me verbatim the case in front of her. Banned on the 11th for still being below standard (blatantly wrong)-rep never checked any of the things she should have-probably too busy because of mass boot going on of sellers. Appeal denied because the removed feedbacks were incorrectly removed (blatantly wrong). Second appeal denied because of same reason as first. What, a rep told me it was because of feedback extortion and member to member messages? All that is in the case is the same as the first.
2 Hours later-Supervisor-no, there is a note attached (not in the official report) that says there was feedback extortion. No, it does not matter that no one is ever banned because of one policy violation. No, it does not matter that a different department said it wasn’t feedback extortion. No, it doesn’t matter that multiple agents lied to me along the way and 4 in a row failed to do their job. No, it doesn’t matter than new information was introduced at the last possible stage of the game. We conducted three rigorous review already-no way are you getting another. Yes, the first two being blatantly wrong and not following procedures were very rigorous indeed. I don’t care-we can conduct a review of all our phone calls and an agent may be reprimanded. So, if you go through the phone calls and find out that five agents in a row were all wrong in their decisions, what does that do for me? Nothing, you will still be banned. Even if the reasoning in the case from A to Z is incorrect, easily verified as so? Yes, we do not care. Someone may lose their job but you will NEVER be reinstated as a seller.
Cliffnotes:
I have been an established seller on eBay for 5 years and have a good-great reputation with 100% positive feedback, OK DSRs, a couple policy violations for stupid things like duplicate listings. Left unfettered, I expected to start doing $300,000-$400,000 a year through eBay and more through referrals to my site.
I had 3 bad buyers in a row that made one evaluation appear bad. All three's feedback was removed within 10 days.
I call eBay to have my bad eval appealed-get stalled for three weeks without the appeal ever happening.
I get banned because of bad eval, agent who evaluated did a terrible job and failed to do at least 6 steps of procedure she was supposed to.
Two reps in a row (one a supervisor) just ignore my pleas for help/don't even bother to look at account, cite incorrect information,put me on endless hold, etc.
One rep finally listens and puts in an appeal-says will take a week.
Appeal takes a month, gets denied because feedback which was removed was supposedly removed incorrectly (this is false).
New re-apeal is turned down within two days. Now, they admit feedback removed legitimately. I'm still banned because they think I feedback extorted one buyer (even though another department went on the record disagreeing with them). They think it will be a pattern and say similar actions will happen in the future (but won't provide any other evidence than the single transaction).
eBay Trust and Safety admits that the appeals process is essentially a fraud. Everyone who gets banned, stays banned. T&S supervisor says she doesn't care at all if agents were correct. Someone may get fired for messing up my case (unlikely) but they will never reinstate my account.
So, what I am trying to do now is decide if/how to acquire legal representation. The level of incompetence of the agents is just unbelievable and I think eBay would settle rather than go to court. I want my account reinstated, 1.5X my lost revenue, and an apology from eBay. I have done some Googling but so far it looks like I only have two options-I am waiting for someone on Shpoonkle.com to approve my post and have some bids on it, but otherwise I just have to cold-call law firms in the area (given there are about 200).
In addition, I am also "stealthing" with a few accounts but realistically this isn't a long-term solution. I can only get these shell accounts up to MAYBE $10,000 apiece limits before PayPal or eBay is going to ask for my SSN or EIN. Short of committing identity fraud or setting up shell companies (oh believe me, I'm on the edge of this but really, really?). In order to get where I need to, I would need nearly 50 **** accounts. Managing 1 eBay account is hard enough. It would take a tremendous amount of unnecessary man power to coordinate all these- plus my fees would be higher when I am already in a low-margin business. You see I am not trying to sell a few odd and ends on eBay every now and then. I am trying to run a multi-million dollar company. The stealthing technique just isn't practical on that type of scale.
So, does anyone have any good ideas on either the legal front or on the increasing sales front? I have tried Amazon, eStore, Webstore, etc.-none will work for my business so I am really in a tight pinch.
Sorry for the SUPER long post!
Additional Info:
BTW, I have every phone call from my first call to John in September recorded. After a supervisor nearly cursed at me and proceeded to put me on an hour hold, I figured the $4 app was worth it. Also, I of course have all of the emails.
In case anyone needed to be further convinced of the crookedness of eBay, I have recording showing eBay, PayPal trying to steal nearly $2,000 in the last two years from me. They claim it was all "accounting errors". I wonder just how "errors" they have across all ~20 million accounts.....some judge seriously needs to shut eBay down for a top to bottom review-they have got to be violating a triple digit number of local, state, and federal laws in the U.S. alone.
Now, I am dealing with one of the most ridicules suspensions from eBay (although it seems to be very common that eBay bans people for no reason whatsoever) and am wondering what to do about it. Below is a really long post so sorry about the word wall! There is a cliffnotes at the bottom but it really doesn't do justice to the situation.
Who I am/my company-So, I am an Ivy student that is stuck paying $63,000 of tuition a year with zero financial aid. My only real source of income is owning my own computer company which has kept me out of any real debt as of yet but that may change very soon with eBay being run by people with the intelligence of toddlers. I started on eBay in 2008 and have since done aprox. $340,000 of business through it-$200,000 of that selling. I sell high-end made to order desktop computers. I have a website and have tried every auction site, but realistically eBay.com is the only viable place for me to do business (either directly or by referring customers to the site).
The History of the eBay account- In the entire history of my account, I only have a few negs or neuts, maybe 2 policy violations and within the last 12 months I have 100% positive feedback, 0 policy violations, and pretty good DSRs for everything but shipping time which is a 4.6. Before my current dilemma with eBay, I was doing the best I ever have-I did $70,000 of sales from May to August (all by myself no-less). My limits were 1600 items and 1.6 million dollars. I recently acquired a partner and refined a few supply chain difficulties so my expectations were to do $100,000 of business from September to Christmas. Boy, was I ever to be blindsided.
The situation leading up to ban-Before the ban, I had 3 low DSRs for shipping time from about 200 sales. Then, all in one month (as my volume increased in the summer), I got three negs which gave me all 1 star feedback between August 10 to 20. Come August 20th, my performance eval dropped me into Below Standard with 5-6 low DSRs for shipping. Between August 20th and the 25th, I had all three negs removed (two were scammers, one willingly changed by an upset customer). I then called customer support and the following chain of events occurred.
The Ban Step-by-Step-blue text is eBay rep speaking
August 20th-Poor eBay evaluation-~5 or 6 low DSRs for shipping time
August 20th-August 25th -3 low DSRs removed-now officially above standard in daily performance. Retrospectively, the account was never actually below standard (any feedback making it BS for a period was removed).
August ~27th- Phone call to eBay. Please review the 20th evaluation so that I can become above standard again ASAP-every day below standard is costing me money. Yes, we will do that in 3-5 business days. From looking at your account, it is highly likely it will be reset to above standard.
August 31st-Phone call to eBay. Never contacted about 20th evaluation review process-what happened? Yes, the review should have happened but has not. I will put in a note, you will be contacted very soon.
September 4-Phone call to eBay. Still not contacted, what in the world is going on? We are very sorry, no one has done it. Should be done so. Review of 20th evaluation NEVER happens.
September 11-(Email) You are banned because of low DSRs. Go away and never sell on eBay again please. It is learned much later that a representative took a look at the 20th evaluation and banned me for it. She should have looked at the fact that I was now above standard, that the feedbacks were removed, contacted me, and seen there was a review of the 20th evaluation ongoing. She did none of the above.
September 12-Why am I banned? The low DSRS were already removed? Sorry, it is indefinite-go away.
September 13-Supervisor-you had declining star ratings, were below standard in February so this is clearly a pattern for you. Ummm, I am looking at my Seller Dashboard and actually every one of my star ratings has improved in the last three months and no I have never been below standard before….I don’t care, go away. Puts on hold over one hour, I eventually hang up.
September 14-Call to John/regular rep. Sorry, yes you should not have been banned. I will submit an appeal of the ban for you. Expect a response within a week.
September 20-Ebay is switching which team handles the appeal, so wait some more please.
September 28th- Yep, they still working.
October 5th-Phone Call-I know people in the new department and will make sure you get a good review-wait some more.
October 14th- Yes, removed feedback would qualify for an unban. But, it looks like yours was removed improperly so we are going to deny the appeal. Ummm…no it wasn’t… Oh, it looks like the agents did not note the removals properly. Yes, they were all valid removals. I will re-appeal the ban.
October 16th- Yes, appeals agrees that all the feedback (the ONLY reason mentioned for the ban to this point) was removed properly. But, it looks like you may have feedback extorted one buyer so we are going to deny the appeal again. Ummm, I didn’t, a Seller Protection agent said I didn’t, and even if I did one single policy violation is not grounds for a ban. Well, we are worried about it being a pattern. Based on what other transactions? I don’t know. So…you don’t know what I am being banned for? We’ve made a strategic decision not to do business and you cannot possibly appeal this-the reasons don’t matter because we are god. And it doesn’t matter that this has never been introduced to me before? No. It doesn’t matter that I was banned for low DSRs and you agree that was incorrect? No. OK….sounds very fair indeed.
October 18th- Two reps tell me appeals are never granted-less than .5% of the time. eBay is forcing lots of sellers out and does not want them back. It doesn’t even allow them to qualify for an appeal in 98% of cases. So, a rep could make a mistake, another rep acknowledge they made a mistake, and it is not a problem-you are still banned. Representative reads me verbatim the case in front of her. Banned on the 11th for still being below standard (blatantly wrong)-rep never checked any of the things she should have-probably too busy because of mass boot going on of sellers. Appeal denied because the removed feedbacks were incorrectly removed (blatantly wrong). Second appeal denied because of same reason as first. What, a rep told me it was because of feedback extortion and member to member messages? All that is in the case is the same as the first.
2 Hours later-Supervisor-no, there is a note attached (not in the official report) that says there was feedback extortion. No, it does not matter that no one is ever banned because of one policy violation. No, it does not matter that a different department said it wasn’t feedback extortion. No, it doesn’t matter that multiple agents lied to me along the way and 4 in a row failed to do their job. No, it doesn’t matter than new information was introduced at the last possible stage of the game. We conducted three rigorous review already-no way are you getting another. Yes, the first two being blatantly wrong and not following procedures were very rigorous indeed. I don’t care-we can conduct a review of all our phone calls and an agent may be reprimanded. So, if you go through the phone calls and find out that five agents in a row were all wrong in their decisions, what does that do for me? Nothing, you will still be banned. Even if the reasoning in the case from A to Z is incorrect, easily verified as so? Yes, we do not care. Someone may lose their job but you will NEVER be reinstated as a seller.
Cliffnotes:
I have been an established seller on eBay for 5 years and have a good-great reputation with 100% positive feedback, OK DSRs, a couple policy violations for stupid things like duplicate listings. Left unfettered, I expected to start doing $300,000-$400,000 a year through eBay and more through referrals to my site.
I had 3 bad buyers in a row that made one evaluation appear bad. All three's feedback was removed within 10 days.
I call eBay to have my bad eval appealed-get stalled for three weeks without the appeal ever happening.
I get banned because of bad eval, agent who evaluated did a terrible job and failed to do at least 6 steps of procedure she was supposed to.
Two reps in a row (one a supervisor) just ignore my pleas for help/don't even bother to look at account, cite incorrect information,put me on endless hold, etc.
One rep finally listens and puts in an appeal-says will take a week.
Appeal takes a month, gets denied because feedback which was removed was supposedly removed incorrectly (this is false).
New re-apeal is turned down within two days. Now, they admit feedback removed legitimately. I'm still banned because they think I feedback extorted one buyer (even though another department went on the record disagreeing with them). They think it will be a pattern and say similar actions will happen in the future (but won't provide any other evidence than the single transaction).
eBay Trust and Safety admits that the appeals process is essentially a fraud. Everyone who gets banned, stays banned. T&S supervisor says she doesn't care at all if agents were correct. Someone may get fired for messing up my case (unlikely) but they will never reinstate my account.
So, what I am trying to do now is decide if/how to acquire legal representation. The level of incompetence of the agents is just unbelievable and I think eBay would settle rather than go to court. I want my account reinstated, 1.5X my lost revenue, and an apology from eBay. I have done some Googling but so far it looks like I only have two options-I am waiting for someone on Shpoonkle.com to approve my post and have some bids on it, but otherwise I just have to cold-call law firms in the area (given there are about 200).
In addition, I am also "stealthing" with a few accounts but realistically this isn't a long-term solution. I can only get these shell accounts up to MAYBE $10,000 apiece limits before PayPal or eBay is going to ask for my SSN or EIN. Short of committing identity fraud or setting up shell companies (oh believe me, I'm on the edge of this but really, really?). In order to get where I need to, I would need nearly 50 **** accounts. Managing 1 eBay account is hard enough. It would take a tremendous amount of unnecessary man power to coordinate all these- plus my fees would be higher when I am already in a low-margin business. You see I am not trying to sell a few odd and ends on eBay every now and then. I am trying to run a multi-million dollar company. The stealthing technique just isn't practical on that type of scale.
So, does anyone have any good ideas on either the legal front or on the increasing sales front? I have tried Amazon, eStore, Webstore, etc.-none will work for my business so I am really in a tight pinch.
Sorry for the SUPER long post!
Additional Info:
BTW, I have every phone call from my first call to John in September recorded. After a supervisor nearly cursed at me and proceeded to put me on an hour hold, I figured the $4 app was worth it. Also, I of course have all of the emails.
In case anyone needed to be further convinced of the crookedness of eBay, I have recording showing eBay, PayPal trying to steal nearly $2,000 in the last two years from me. They claim it was all "accounting errors". I wonder just how "errors" they have across all ~20 million accounts.....some judge seriously needs to shut eBay down for a top to bottom review-they have got to be violating a triple digit number of local, state, and federal laws in the U.S. alone.
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