PayPal Chargeback where the buyer withdraws the complaint - crooked PayPal!

[Modee]

I shipped something to a customer from one of my websites (not an EBAY sale), and a while later, the chargeback came in.

The customer admitted that he had simply not recognized the charge and disputed it by mistake. Emailed me a letter to that effect, and apologized. Said he withdrew the chargeback dispute with his credit card company. Provided all that information and a copy of his email to PayPal.

Took a couple of months, but eventually PP came back and ruled against me anyway:

Dear \,

As you know, we have been using the information you provided to dispute a
chargeback filed against the transaction detailed below. Despite our best
efforts, the buyer's credit card company decided in favor of the buyer.

Unfortunately, we do not control the outcome of the chargeback decision
reached by the buyer's issuing bank in a credit card transaction. By
accepting the terms of the PayPal User Agreement, you agreed to accept the
decision of the issuing bank as final and legally binding for this type of
dispute.

Please review the information below for more details about this case.

-----------------------------------
Details of Disputed Transaction
-----------------------------------

Buyer's Name:xxxxx
Buyer's Email:[email protected]
Transaction Date:Oct 31, 2007
Your Transaction ID: 8F910241BDxxxxxxx
Buyer's Transaction ID: 37T86541xxxxxxx
Transaction Amount:-xxxxx USDCase #:PP-379-xxx-xxx

-----------------------------------
What to Do Next
-----------------------------------

We encourage you to contact the buyer directly to try to resolve the matter
or to recover your merchandise.

We understand that you may not have been expecting this chargeback. If this
chargeback has made your PayPal account balance negative, please reimburse
us by adding funds to your account or by sending a check to the following
address:

PayPal
Attn: Accounting Department
P.O. Box 45950
Omaha, NE 68145-0950
United States

-----------------------------------
Due Dates
-----------------------------------

None.


-----------------------------------
Other Details
-----------------------------------

There are no other details regarding this transaction at this time.


Thank you for your patience and cooperation in helping us with this matter.
We appreciate your business and regret that you experienced a chargeback.

Sincerely,
PayPal
Chargeback Department

[Modee]

I am still pushing it. lol PayPal changed its story already when I pointed out that I had confirmation from both the buyer and the credit card company that the chargeback had been dropped:

Dear /,

Thank you for contacting PayPal with your concern.

We have submitted our documentation to the bank. They have not contacted
us yet that it has been closed. If the buyer has indicated that he/she
is accepting the charge, please advise him/her to contact PayPal
directly for further instructions to assist us in resolving the dispute.

Please let me know if you need further assistance.

Sincerely,
_________
PayPal Chargeback Division
PayPal, an eBay Company

Oh okay, so first it was:
"PayPal did not win the dispute of the chargeback with the buyer’s credit card company."

now its

"They have not contacted us yet that it has been closed"


Riiiight.

[Modee]

Here they are, trying to clean it up:

Dear /,

Thank you for contacting PayPal with your concern.

While the statements referenced are different, they are equally true. We
attempted to dispute the chargeback on ______, 2008. We were then
informed on _______, 2008 that the case had been found in the buyer's
favor.

After that time, we were informed that the buyer contacted the credit
card company and cancelled the chargeback. We have not, at this time,
received any indication from the credit card company that the chargeback
has been cancelled.

While we cannot continue the dispute according to the credit card
company regulations, we will gladly return the funds to you when the
credit card company completed their due diligence and informs us of a
cancellation.

We appreciate your patience and understanding regarding this matter, and
wish you continued success on PayPal.

Sincerely,
_______
PayPal Chargeback Division
PayPal, an eBay Company

[Modee]

Crazy, this goes on.

My buyer (a really nice guy actually), wrote to PayPal (and copied me):

[To Seller, PayPal]: just checked my credit card statements. I
have definitely paid the $_____. Post date 12/11
Ref.# G9162XXX Reverse paypal *_______ 402-935-7
[Buyer]

TO: Paypal chargeback:
Please read the entire chain of emails. I went to
RESOLUTION online but could not get a fax cover sheet.
I typed in PP 370-204-XXX but got the message that the
file is inaccessible to me. I will try to fax you
again using the same cover sheet. What part of this is
unreadable anyway? I am simply trying to get a
merchant paid when my credit co. has already paid
Paypal for it. I am never ever going to use Paypal
again. [Buyer]

TO: PAYPAL
Look at my credit card statement w/ closing date
1/09/2008, post date 12/11, reference # G9162XXX,
Reverse Paypal etc. Amount _____.
By my reckoning, the first payment was charged
11/01/2007 -______, Conditional Credit for dispute
11/06 +______, then charged again on 12/11 -_____.
Therefore I have been charged and have paid _____.
[Buyer]


--- [email protected] wrote:

> Dear ______,
>
> Thank you for contacting PayPal.
>
> The statements that you sent show a conditional
> credit. I do not see
> where you were charged for the transaction a second
> time. Please clarify
> your issue at this time.
>
> We appreciate your patience and understanding
> regarding this matter, and
> wish you continued success on PayPal.
>
> Sincerely,
> Matt
> PayPal Chargeback Division
> PayPal, an eBay Company

[Modee]

What's really pathetic, is that there are two or three other "chargebacks" like this where the buyers simply did not recognize my company name on their credit cards, then promptly notified their card companies all was well, paid the bill, and on THOSE "claims," PayPal has been simply silent, for about five months now, stating merely, "PayPal continued to investigate."

On one of them, they finally coughed up the money, only because I pushed it recently:

Dear _________,

Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns. I am
happy to assist you further.

From researching this chargeback case history, I do not show an updated
dispute from the card issuer, therefore, I have requested a credit for
$_____ USD be placed into your account balance.

This credit should reflect within 72 hours.

We appreciate your patience and understanding regarding this matter, and
wish you continued success on PayPal.

Sincerely,
Melanie
PayPal Chargeback Division
PayPal, an eBay Company

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
What is this? Your own email system does not even work???

Original message:

Status of this payment 8GR12677R67762XXX
customer message: Additional Information: 'What finally happened with
this
Nov. #, ####, $______ payment from ________ ? Buyer told me that
she
dropped any claim against the charge with Citibank and paid the charge.
Did
I get the money or not?

USPS delivery conf. # ####################

Status of any claim?'

-[Seller]

[Modee]

It gets richer. Way richer!

PayPal's own email system is down! for what I sent them from their internal Contact Us form. User unknown! PayPal don't even know hisself.

The original message was received at Sat, 10 May 2008 10:54:40 -0700
from denwpublb-1.den.paypal.com [10.191.12.11]

----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
dk
(reason: 550 5.1.1 User unknown)
(expanded from: <[email protected]>)

----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 5.1.1 dk... User unknown

[Modee]

TO: PayPal (copy to Seller (me)):
I spoke to Billing Dispute Department of my credit
card company. They made the $____ available to
PayPal as of 1/7/2008 (reference #G9162XXX on my
credit card 1/9/08 statement). They once again
restated that I was charged _____ on the Feb.
statement at the very end "The following dispute is
now considered resolved Paypal _____ 11,01 sale
date $______+ $.00 fin chg previously credited."
[Buyer]

[Modee]

On some of these I complained so much they coughed up the money owed on the improper chargebacks:

#1
Dear ________,

Thank you for contacting PayPal.

I do show that $_______ was added your PayPal balance on Apr. 29, 2008;
due to a chargeback reimbursement.

Thanks again for writing, and thank you for being part of the PayPal
community.

Sincerely,
Sean

PayPal Resolution Services
PayPal, an eBay Company

#2
Dear __________,

Thank you for contacting PayPal. We apologize for the delay in
responding to your service request.

Buyer's Name:_________
Buyer's Email:_________
Transaction Date:Nov 1, 2007
Your Transaction ID: 8GR12677R677XXXX
Buyer's Transaction ID: 0L7479113W71XXXXX
Transaction Amount:-_____ USDCase #:PP-386-068-XXX

I have reviewed this case and it appears a credit was submitted for this
transaction. Please allow 3-5 business days for this credit to appear.

We appreciate your patience and understanding regarding this matter, and
wish you continued success on PayPal.

Sincerely,
Amiruddin Irshad
PayPal Consumer Support
PayPal, an eBay Company

#3
Dear ___________,

Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns. I am
happy to assist you further.

From researching this chargeback case history, I do not show an updated
dispute from the card issuer, therefore, I have requested a credit for
_______ USD be placed into your account balance.

This credit should reflect within 72 hours.

We appreciate your patience and understanding regarding this matter, and
wish you continued success on PayPal.

Sincerely,
Melanie
PayPal Chargeback Division
PayPal, an eBay Company

#4
Dear ___________,

As you know we have been reviewing the transaction detailed below. Our
investigation is now complete. The payment has been completed.

We appreciate your cooperation, this inquiry is closed.


-----------------------------------
Transaction Details
-----------------------------------


Buyer's Name: __________
Buyer's Email: _______________
Buyer's Transaction ID: 1WN81915BA156XXXX

Transaction Date: Mar 29, 2008
Transaction Amount: ________ USD
Your Transaction ID: 1WN81915BA15XXXXX
Case Number: PP-457-662-XXX

Seller's Transaction ID: 6XV36817VF33XXXXX


Sincerely,
PayPal

So that's four times I collected what was due me, only because I kept after PayPal for it. And the fifth time...the chargeback where the buyer withdrew the complaint (the subject of this thread)...I still haven't received a dime for that.

[Modee]

I finally got fed up and sent PP this about a week ago:

PAYPAL MUST RELEASE THESE FUNDS TO ME (read below):

This is not right - if PayPal has collected $_______ from this buyer and is not releasing it to me the seller, how many millions has PayPal stolen from others?

Buyer's statement:
"I spoke to Billing Dispute Department of my credit
> card company. They made the $_______ available to
> PayPal as of 1/7/2008 (reference #G9162XXX on my
> credit card 1/9/08 statement). They once again
> restated that I was charged _________ on the Feb.
> statement at the very end "The following dispute is
> now considered resolved Paypal Princess 11,01 sale
> date $_________+ $.00 fin chg previously credited."
> [Buyer]"

and of course they came back with some nonsense, but then out of the blue came this today (notice the DATE of the original charge):

Dear _____________,

We are pleased to inform you that we have successfully disputed chargeback
case #PP-379-204-4XXX. The buyer's card issuer has decided in your favor
and within seven days you will receive reimbursement for $______ USD.



It is PayPal's standard practice to dispute wrongful chargebacks. One of
the benefits of using PayPal is that our team of chargeback specialists
will gather the necessary information from you and work with the credit
card company until the chargeback is resolved.

We appreciate your prompt response to our request for information about
this transaction.


-----------------------------------
Transaction Details
-----------------------------------


Buyer's Name:__________
Buyer's Email:___________
Buyer's Transaction ID: 8F910241BD265XXXX




Transaction Date:Oct 31, 2007
Transaction Amount:
Case #:PP-379-204-XXX


Your Transaction ID: 8F910241BD265XXXX


-----------------------------------
What to Do Next
-----------------------------------

This case is now closed. No further action is required of you.

Thank you for your patience and cooperation in helping us resolve this
matter as quickly as possible. We appreciate your business and regret that
you experienced a chargeback.


For an overview of how PayPal works with you to investigate chargebacks,
log in to your account, click the Resolution Center tab, and then click the
Resolution Center Tutorials link.

Sincerely,
PayPal
Chargeback Department

Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is not monitored and you
will not receive a response. For assistance, log in to your PayPal account
and click the Help link in the top right corner of any PayPal page.

CB:PP-379-204-404:USD18.09:12/05/2007:8F910241BD265XXXX

[Modee]

I then wrote:

Thank you!

I would like the chargeback FEE that you unjustly charged me reversed as well please.

In this situation the buyer reversed the chargeback and wrote to you a half dozen times explaining this. I wrote to you at least a dozen times.

So much work.

-[Seller]

[Modee]

The only disputes I have ever lost are ones where I simply never shipped the goods - such as when I was out of town for extended periods and couldn't do it - in those case, sure - I did not fight the disputes.

But as of now, with this one, I have a 100% success rate with getting my money from these thieves (PayPal) for unjustified buyer disputes.

[Modee]

They claim that I was never charged the $10. chargeback fee. Is that true? Do I have time to look back over records a year old over ten dollars?

Email #1 - PP says "You're not getting ___!":
Dear ____________,

Thank you for contacting PayPal. We regret the delay in responding to
your service request.

I have reviewed your account and this chargeback and the $_______ USD
funds were recovered on 1/7/08. However, I do not see that we recovered
a $10.00 chargeback fee.

I understand your frustration regarding this matter and regret any
inconvenience it might have caused you.

Sincerely,
Robert
PayPal Chargeback Division
PayPal, an eBay Company

Email #2 (sent twenty minutes after email #1) - PP says, "We never did charge you that ten dollars!":
Dear ____________,

Thank you for taking the time to write to us with your concerns. I am
happy to assist you further.

Upon further review of chargeback case PP-379-204-XXX, I can see that
you were not charged a chargeback fee on this transaction. I also see
that we reimbursed the $________ USD back to your PayPal account on
11-07-08. Please let us know if you see something different.

We appreciate your patience and understanding regarding this matter, and
wish you continued success on PayPal.

Sincerely,
Gorka
PayPal Chargeback Division
PayPal, an eBay Company

[Cantgetahead]

So I just received my first chargeback for a credit card purchase, the item was purchased over 60 days . but the kicker is Ebay refunded this guy his money already and are charging me in my resolution fees for this, the problem i have with this is that the account the transaction was purchased on has been suspended for nonpayment of fees and I'll NEVER atleast not from home sign into this account again. What could I do in terms of providing proof the guy has been paid already?

[Modee]

You need tech support to address this situation. Why? because in your other thread you say that you are interested in reinstating the account.

If you do not care about the account, why worry about repayment of anything? Whether you owe fees to ebay or resolution fees
Ebay Resolution Fees - Reimbursement as a result of losing an EBay Buyer Dispute - Free EBAY, PayPal, Business and Law Forums - Ebay Suspension, PayPal Limited

to a buyer it all comes down to the same alleged debt owed to Ebay.

http://www.modeeworld.com/forums/for...lection-agency

[Sake-Pookie]

Paypal are most definitely willing and eager accomplices to buyer fraud and theft.
Someone that knows the laws need to file a class action suit against paypal/ebay for complicity to interstate and internet fraud, AND for anti-trust/monopoly violations by requiring members use paypal only, no cash, no money orders, no checks.

Competition law, known in the United States as antitrust law, has three main elements:

prohibiting agreements or practices that restrict free trading and competition between business. This includes in particular the repression of cartels.
banning abusive behavior by a firm dominating a market, or anti-competitive practices that tend to lead to such a dominant position. Practices controlled in this way may include predatory pricing, tying, price gouging, refusal to deal, and many others.
supervising the mergers and acquisitions of large corporations, including some joint ventures. Transactions that are considered to threaten the competitive process can be prohibited altogether, or approved subject to "remedies" such as an obligation to divest part of the merged business or to offer licenses or access to facilities to enable other businesses to continue competing